Motor-Homers
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomePortalStolen Motorhome DatabaseRegisterLog in
Thank you for visiting Motor-Homers.co.uk - Sponsored By Outsmart The Thief Ltd - A motorhome club owned by its members, Please register to join us for a chat - IT'S FREE TO JOIN ~~~~~
Latest topics
» Anyone up for organising a rally for 2022?
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby KSH Sun 16 Jan 2022 - 19:20

» Introductions
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Ambilkate Thu 13 Jan 2022 - 13:57

» It's back after 5 months!!
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Chameleon Wed 12 Jan 2022 - 0:21

» Zsigmond
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Chameleon Wed 12 Jan 2022 - 0:10

» What do you buy a Dad whose 101 years old?
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Chameleon Mon 10 Jan 2022 - 23:11

» Happy New Year to Everyone
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Sun 2 Jan 2022 - 17:20

» Cristmas Greetings
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Quicksam Sat 25 Dec 2021 - 8:31

» 1st to 10th October at Haxey Quays
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby KSH Thu 16 Dec 2021 - 22:35

» Once again!!
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby KSH Thu 16 Dec 2021 - 22:11

» Paul
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Tue 7 Dec 2021 - 18:30

» New Addition
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Sun 5 Dec 2021 - 19:02

» Grrrrrrrrrr
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Sat 27 Nov 2021 - 10:45

» Travellors
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Thu 11 Nov 2021 - 14:24

» Cheap UK Aire Fraserburgh
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Cie Wed 10 Nov 2021 - 15:49

» WELL WHAT HAVE YOU DONE
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Fri 5 Nov 2021 - 10:19

» New Member Hello to all
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Thu 4 Nov 2021 - 14:33

» Ireland
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby rebbyvid Sat 18 Sep 2021 - 16:40

» Hi Everyone
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Mon 6 Sep 2021 - 10:29

» Anyone interested in organising a rally in 2021?
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Techno100 Mon 30 Aug 2021 - 13:19

» Motor-Homers Property Log
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby jolly camper Sun 4 Jul 2021 - 8:42

» BAKEWELL 23-28 JUNE 2022
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby KSH Mon 28 Jun 2021 - 16:15

» 3. Bakewell 17-22 June
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby vin0114 Fri 25 Jun 2021 - 17:21

» 2. Bridlington 11th to 21st June 2021
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby KSH Wed 23 Jun 2021 - 21:44

» E10 petrol coming in September
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby KSH Wed 23 Jun 2021 - 19:26

» Our George
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Tue 22 Jun 2021 - 18:11

» Booking meets
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby KSH Tue 8 Jun 2021 - 20:51

» 1 Haxey Quays, 16th to 25th April 2021
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby KSH Tue 8 Jun 2021 - 19:54

» New Member
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby jonsea149 Tue 8 Jun 2021 - 15:24

» Hope to be out and about soon, but......
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Sun 6 Jun 2021 - 21:04

» New member
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeby Polly Sat 5 Jun 2021 - 16:24


 

 AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far

Go down 
3 posters
AuthorMessage
whistlinggypsy

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far 400010
whistlinggypsy


Posts : 4766
Join date : 2012-11-13
Age : 77
Location : Southport

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeMon 7 Jul 2014 - 12:12

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far
As we have all done so far, I have trawled the internet for the new rules and legislations on 2014 A-Frames. I have spoke to the relevant people at the Department for Transport and I have read “Regulation 13” front to back.
The long and short of it is :-
A-Frames will have to have a change of design in 2014. We are already prepared for that and our RVi system meets this completely. However, our standard cable braked A-Frame is completely legal and up until 2014 we will continue to fit them as any laws introduced will not be retrospective.

Forthcoming Legislation
(24/9/2010)
The current European Type Approval legislation for trailers,71/320/EEC,is due to be rescinded in 2014 and replaced by UN ECE Regulation 13. Part of this Regulation (section 5.2.2.2) stipulates that inertia braking systems will only be permitted on centre axle trailers. This may mean it will no longer be possible to use inertia braking systems on A-frames.
At the moment it is unclear how this change will be interpreted with regard to A-frames. This type of legislation change is not normally retrospective so A-frames currently in use should not be affected, however it is possible that the Department for Transport may take a different view.
The next question that arises is how does type approval apply in the case of a car on an A-frame? Obviously the car will be type approved in its own right, but what happens when it is converted into a trailer by the addition of an A-frame? It may be that it will be the original supplier/fitter of the A-frame who will need to ensure that the braking of the combined unit of car + A-frame conforms to UN ECE Regulation 13 for any A-frames supplied or fitted after this regulation comes into force. However, until the DFT make a decision it would be unwise to make any assumptions!

These comments below are listed on other companies websites, I’ve put their opinions forward too so you don’t need to do the searching. Where I’m opposed I’ve made notes for you.

There is a further ‘problem’ in the modifications done to the front of the towed car in order to attach the A-frame. This will most likely alter (strengthen) the crumple zone at the front of the car leading to premature deployment of airbags in the event of a very small bump at the front. It also has implications for the manufacturers’ homologation validity. (Except in most cases, the manufacturer has already implemented the fitting into handbook. See Suzuki’s for details)
When have you even seen a car come away or turn over when towed by a motorhome?
Now caravans hitched to a car in accidents are common sighting turned over or coming unhitched.
As to the receptor plate fitted to the front on a towed car it’s far less cumbersome than a massive tow bar fixed to the rear of caravaner’s car.

Camping & Caravan Club:-

For many years the Department for Transport (DfT) was clear that the use of devices such as A-frames, spectacle lifts and dollies were intended only for the purposes of recovery of broken down vehicles. The current information sheet on this subject states: “We believe the ‘A’ frame and car become a single unit and as such are classified in legislation as a trailer.” It continues: “We believe the use of ‘A’ frames to tow cars behind other vehicles is legal provided the braking and lighting requirements are met.”

Some inertia-braked A-frame suppliers claim testing has proved their system meets the necessary braking force regulations and argue that cars on inertia-braked A frames can be reversed without the need to manually operate any mechanism. “It takes a little skill, but with care, gentle reversing can be successfully achieved” one supplier is quoted as saying.
The continuing use of A-frame towing with inertia braking systems is under threat from prospective European legislation concerning trailers, which is due to come into force in 2014. Present UK Construction and Use Regulations incorporate a stipulation for trailer braking performance to conform to European Directive 71/320/EEC or UNECE Regulation No 13.09. The new legislation will require conformity with only the UNECE regulation. This latter regulation only permits overrun braking systems to be used on centre axle trailers such as caravans and traditional trailers and not cars towed as trailers.
VOSA, the Government’s Vehicle and Operator Services Agency, has yet to decide how to implement the regulation into UK national legislation and so it is uncertain whether the legislation will be retrospective for existing A-frame systems. Electrical braking systems should be able to meet with the UNECE Regulation No 13.09.
If you do go down the A-frame route, check your car can be towed. Some cars, especially automatics, can have their transmission system damaged by being towed. Also inform your insurance company for both the car and your motorhome and check it is happy with the arrangement. And remember, reversing with a small towed trailer is notoriously difficult, especially when it is out of sight. Using a rear view camera can be helpful. Such cameras are now readily available as an aftermarket accessory.

Note on A-Frames, issued by the Department of Transport

When an “A” frame is attached to a vehicle (e.g. a motor car) and towed by a motor vehicle (e.g. motorhome) we believe the “A” frame and car become a single unit and as such are classified in legislation as a trailer. As a consequence the car and A-frame are required to meet the technical requirements for trailers when used on the road in Great Britain. These requirements are contained within the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (SI 1986/1078) as amended (C&U) and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (SI 1989/1796) as amended (RVLR).
Trailers having a combined axle mass not exceeding 750kg are not required to have brakes fitted. However, if the trailer (regardless of mass) is fitted with a braking system, then all brakes in that system must operate correctly. The regulations do not include design constraints on how this should be achieved but, for example, it could be met by direct linking of the trailer brakes to the brake system of the towing vehicle or by automatic inertia (overrun) operation via the towing hitch. Inertia systems can only be used for trailers with a maximum combined axle mass of 3500kg.
Regulations 15 and 16 set out the braking requirements – including minimum braking efficiencies for trailer brakes. Subject to certain age exemptions, the regulation requires the braking system to comply with the construction, fitting and performance requirements of European Community Directive 71/320/EEC along with its various amending Directives. The most recent consolidated directive is 98/12/EC. Alternatively the braking system can comply with the corresponding UNECE Regulation No.13.09
In addition, C&U Regulation 18 requires the braking system to be maintained in good and efficient working order. If the brakes of the towing vehicle do not directly operate the trailer brakes the use of an inertia (overrun) system is acceptable.
Back to top Go down
whistlinggypsy

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far 400010
whistlinggypsy


Posts : 4766
Join date : 2012-11-13
Age : 77
Location : Southport

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeMon 7 Jul 2014 - 12:49

The above info is not mine but information passed on by me from a link Baza posted elsewhere and is from Towtal Ltd of Stoke.
Back to top Go down
The Burchies

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far 300010
The Burchies


Posts : 3982
Join date : 2012-11-15
Age : 108
Location : Bournemouth

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeMon 7 Jul 2014 - 13:30

Nice one Bob!,
I'm sure a lot of members will be very interested in reading this.
Back to top Go down
Don Quixote.

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far 10010
Don Quixote.


Posts : 155
Join date : 2013-07-08
Location : Spain

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeMon 7 Jul 2014 - 17:12

It will be interesting what Spain make of that. If A frames were to be accepted in Spain they would have more MH'ers than they do now, just silly what they do here sometimes.
Back to top Go down
whistlinggypsy

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far 400010
whistlinggypsy


Posts : 4766
Join date : 2012-11-13
Age : 77
Location : Southport

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeMon 7 Jul 2014 - 17:22

Do not think the spanish will a toss what happens here in the UK, they will still BAN them  Evil or Very Mad 
Back to top Go down
Don Quixote.

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far 10010
Don Quixote.


Posts : 155
Join date : 2013-07-08
Location : Spain

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeMon 7 Jul 2014 - 17:23

Yep your probably spot on there.
Back to top Go down
whistlinggypsy

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far 400010
whistlinggypsy


Posts : 4766
Join date : 2012-11-13
Age : 77
Location : Southport

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeMon 7 Jul 2014 - 17:59

From what I have heard from some spanish friends John, it was not the spanish government that banned A frames but the King himself, so it is he that we need to get to change his mind and that will not be easy, what makes my blood boil is that if we (UK) make it a fully legal EU law then it should be law throughout the EU, but I shall not be holding my breathe.
Back to top Go down
Don Quixote.

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far 10010
Don Quixote.


Posts : 155
Join date : 2013-07-08
Location : Spain

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeMon 7 Jul 2014 - 18:05

Well you never know with this new King as he is very "today" and wants Spain to grow, so fingers crossed we might see some changes for the good over the next few years.
What people do not understand is the the average policeman in Spain gets paid very little for the job he/she does and relies very heavily on the income from the fines that he/she issue each day to make 1/3 of their wages up. Bit like Ryanair who fine the people flying left/right and centre to make a profit.
I would get an A-frame tomorrow here if I could use one as the little 125cc scooter we use on the MH is great as long as it's warm and not raining.................
Back to top Go down
whistlinggypsy

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far 400010
whistlinggypsy


Posts : 4766
Join date : 2012-11-13
Age : 77
Location : Southport

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeWed 9 Jul 2014 - 2:14

We had a UK motorway copper pitched next to us at the MarJal last winter and he towed a car down from the UK, asked if he was concerned he answer was NO, let them fine meI will then take them to court, thats fine for him as all he has to do is flash his UK police badge and guess what, carry on sir  Evil or Very Mad 
Back to top Go down
Don Quixote.

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far 10010
Don Quixote.


Posts : 155
Join date : 2013-07-08
Location : Spain

AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitimeWed 9 Jul 2014 - 8:15

Before serving in the armed forces I was a policeman in the RUC now called the Northern Ireland Police Force and I can tell you that it would be worse for him as breaking the law in the police would cost him his job. He is not allowed to "flash" his ID outside of the UK by law.
In the movies a policeman flashes his ID and gets away with it DOES not happen in real life. 
He may have thought he would get away with it, but in reality he is was/is a lucky man. 
I have asked the local policeman here in our village in Spain he stated that 99% of the time local police would not have a clue about an "a-frame" on a MH, however the motorway police will and many ( not all ) will stop and fine to make the wages up. about 5 weeks ago there was a British MH parked up in local supermarket car park with A-frame on and little smart car mounted. It was there for hours so they are being used regardless.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far   AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
AFrames & 2014 – Truth so far
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Motor-Homers :: Community :: Announcements-
Jump to: